When God Makes You Mute: Finding Your Voice in Seasons of Silence
Have you ever felt like you had something important to say but couldn’t find the platform to say it?
You’re not alone. Many people experience seasons where their voice feels silenced—not because God took it away, but because circumstances, fear, or life transitions left them uncertain about how to step forward. This episode of The Daron Earlewine Podcast flips the script as host Daron Earlewine becomes the guest, answering questions about his journey from drummer to pastor to marketplace coach.
The discipline that sustains you through death
When Daron’s band fell apart at 21, he thought he’d lost everything. But looking back through old journals years later, he discovered something surprising: he was more spiritually disciplined than he remembered. Through daily Bible reading, consistent journaling, and genuine connection with Jesus, he’d built practices that carried him through the collapse of his dream. The journaling became a record of God’s faithfulness—not just the yeses, but the nos and the “not right nows” that felt like rejection but were actually redirection.
Spiritual disciplines aren’t about rigid religious performance. They’re about creating space to hear God’s voice when everything else is screaming at you that you’re alone. Daron shared how he’s worked out 3-5 days a week for 15 years and maintained those journal entries that chart God’s presence through multiple career changes—from drummer to young adult pastor to church planter to nonprofit leader to podcaster to marketplace coach. Ten different occupations, one consistent calling: love people and point them to Jesus.
Your job isn’t your calling—but your calling fits in any job
The conversation took a turn into one of Daron’s core teachings from Rogue Collective Coaching: the difference between occupation and vocation. Your occupation is the uniform you wear. Your vocation is who you are. When marketplace leaders ask “What jobs have great purpose?” they always answer the same: doctors, first responders, military, and teachers. But what about the dozer operator? The asphalt team member? The construction worker?
Dallas Willard said it best: not every career is your calling, but your calling can fit into any career. You were created by a relationship (Father, Son, Holy Spirit) for relationships. You’re made in God’s image, and God is love, which means your calling is love. Your job might just be the patron that funds your ability to do what God created you to do. When you understand that, you stop waiting for the perfect job title to give you purpose and start living with purpose wherever you are.
The episode wraps with Daron’s advice for anyone stuck in job transitions or career angst: Seek Jesus. Not go to church. Not be more religious. Actually seek to know Jesus and hear his voice. Ask two questions every day: “Jesus, what are you saying to me?” and “What am I supposed to do about that?” Then do it. Everything is a response, not an initiative. When you react out of anxiety, you make it worse. When you respond to God’s leading, you step into what he’s already prepared for you.
Episode Summary:
Ever wonder what it’s like when the host becomes the guest? Daron hands over the mic to PJ Towle for a raw conversation about calling, career changes, and the spiritual disciplines that keep you grounded when your entire world falls apart. This episode goes deep as Daron shares stories from band breakups to church planting to launching Rogue Collective—all while unpacking what it really means to seek Jesus when everything you’ve built comes crashing down.
Key Takeaways:
- Why journaling became the key to seeing God’s faithfulness
- The difference between occupation and vocation that changes everything
- How God uses the push and pull of transition to refine your calling
- What spiritual disciplines sustained Daron through 10 career changes
- The two questions that help you respond to God instead of reacting to life
Episode Resources:
Connect with Daron on Social Media:
Links to the Daron Earlewine Podcast
YouTube | Apple Podcasts | Spotify | Libsyn
EPISODE TRANSCRIPT
Daron: Like I wasn’t speaking at churches very much. I wasn’t really doing anything. I was trying to figure this thing out. And I think it was God saying to me like, oh you’ve made yourself mute and I didn’t ask you to be. And you running away from or transitioning out of being like a traditional pastor, but you never stop being a leader. So you need to step up and you need to speak up because I didn’t take it away from you. You just muted yourself.
Tagline: Created on purpose & for a purpose.
Daron: If you’ve ever been watching the Daron Earlewine podcast and thought, what would it be like if Daron wasn’t the host? He was the guest. Then this is the episode for you. We put this episode together because we thought, you know what, it could be good to see what it’s like for me to be on the other side of the microphone. A lot of takeaways from this episode. I think you’re going to really enjoy it. It’s coming up right now. Welcome back to the Daron Earlewine podcast. Thanks for downloading this episode. It’s going to be a special episode, OK?
Daron: I know that now you’re going to know that here in a minute as I tell you. But do you remember there was this Disney movie, I think. Oh, what was it called? Think Lindsay Lohan was in it. It’s like a remake. It’s Freaky Friday. Is that what she switches places with her mom? Yeah. They just did a remake or not a remake, a sequel. Yes, you’re correct. Yes. So we’re not recording this on Friday. This is Freaky Thursday. Correct. So welcome PJ Towle to the podcast. Welcome back. Yeah. How’s it going, everybody?
PJ: First time, not a first time guest, but long time listener. Long time listener, second time guest, third time guest, something like that. Like, I don’t know, we’re making it up as we go.
Daron: So as a team, we came up with this idea, hey, let’s do an episode where Daron’s the host, but he’s not the host, he’s the guest. And then we just grill him with questions, right? I have so many questions. I love that. And originally, the concept was let’s trick Julie into coming back on the podcast by giving her the opportunity to. Because podcast views are always up where she’s on. Yeah, we’re just trying to find a way to manipulate Julie to be on the podcast more. But the idea was let’s get Julie to host and she can grill Daron as like not just Daron, but my husband and just and I was a little bit worried this morning when I woke up because I mean she is a kind, wonderful person. Sure.
PJ: Part of a wifely duty, right? Is to keep you in line.
Daron: She has absolutely dialed in her role as spouse, but she woke up this morning, unfortunately, with a really terrible migraine. And so she said, there’s no way I can sit and do the podcast. So I thought I was comforted by the thought that you would now be in the role of question asker. Except for the fact that she sent me her questions. Yeah, but you are brilliant. You’re inquisitive. You’re a type four in the enneagram. Yes. Yes. Yes. So the types of questions that you could throw at me will be interesting. So here’s what’s going to happen. I’m now no longer hosting this podcast. I’m now the guest on the podcast and I’m intrigued to see where this conversation goes. So, PJ, take the wheel.
PJ: Well, so let’s just start off with some of Julie’s questions. So, so Daron, tell me what it’s like to be your spouse. I’m just kidding. That’s not really one of her questions and I couldn’t actually even get an answer from you on that, but we’ll see. So no, I actually had a couple of pressing questions. This is a funny story. We were sitting at dinner the other night and for those of you listening in podcast land, you don’t know, but I love to cook. Yeah. And so every time like we find a restaurant or something that we go to, like I want to figure out how to make the dishes that we love and all that. And so we have figured out at home how to do just stellar at home pizza. I absolutely love it. My daughter loves ranch dressing on her pizza. Yes. As I know you do. And so we’re sitting at dinner the other night eating pizza. She’s putting ranch dressing on her pizza and sometimes she does thousand Island, which is super weird to me. But I said, Hey, here’s one for you. What would you think about putting ranch on spaghetti? And they’re like, what are you talking about? And I said, well, Pastor Daron like puts ranch on spaghetti. I think they even do it on like lasagna. Like pasta, tomato sauce kind of thing. So inquiring minds want to know how in the world did that become a thing?
Daron: I think what it was for one baseline is this. My brother, Damon’s three years older than me, we are polar opposites. Get a category other than the fact that we’re based at the same exact height. That’s it. Everything else is completely different. So even to the point of how we like our food. Okay. So Damon loves his loves his anything. We’ll just call it dry. Right. Like he doesn’t want mayonnaise or mustard or ketchup on his sandwiches. He just wants meat and cheese. He doesn’t love, you know, sauces and like I love my food drenched. Okay. It’s probably the seven and me Morris better.
Daron: So I’m always trying to add some kind of sauce to things, which is where I think it started. Then I’m going to guess it started with pizza because you know, there’s that moment. I’m going to say usually for me, the third bite of a piece of pizza is the best bite because the first one you’re it’s, you know, it’s the tip of it where you’re not getting like a full piece of pizza. And then usually maybe like you’re just getting that lot times that third bite, you’re getting all the toppings. It’s the bite. Right. But then there’s that moment where you get right to the edge of their crust and you’ve got a lot of crust. Maybe there’s a little bit of sauce that’s still splashed on it. And so basically at that point, you have kind of a spiced up breadstick that you’re dealing with. So at some point in the eating journey, I thought, you know what? I’m going to dip this in ranch. And it started and it went from there. Then I think I just realized the combination of marinara sauce, cheese and ranch are phenomenal. It works, right.
PJ: Okay, but we’re still talking about pizza. Yeah. So tell me about spaghetti.
Daron: So then I’m guessing at some point during eating spaghetti, I thought, hmm, this is just kind of like pizza with squiggly pasta. Instead of bread. Instead of bread, it’s pasta. So what if we just were to drizzle a little bit of ranch on this? Life changer. Then of course the next time we had lasagna, I was like, you know, there’s a lot of common factors. Let’s do a little drizzle of ranch on here. And every time it made the dish better. That is interesting, odd, innovative, rogue, shall we say?
PJ: Very rogue. I’m just going to go ahead and ahead of time, just say you’re Any podcast listeners that will now try that. You know, I also, believe I can’t remember if it was you or Coop that I introduced to drenching ketchup and pepper. Oh, it was me. Yeah. Oh, it’s phenomenal. Yeah. Yeah. We were at In-N-Out in Vegas. Yes. And we sit down and he starts pouring little pepper packets all over his ketchup. And I’m like, what are you doing? He goes, dude, have you never tried this? And I said, no, but I love pepper. So I started doing it and it’s a total game changer on your french fries. So just once again, you’re welcome. Start drenching your ketchup in pepper also. And I got this from eating at Five Guys. You know, Five Guys has that cayenne seasoning that you can get with the fries. I don’t know if it’s better, but it’s at least as good. I think it might be better.
Daron: Drench your ketchup in that cayenne peppers. Better than the black pepper that you’re saying like that you do with regular fries everywhere else. The change would be sometimes you have a fry that may have its own seasoning type, you know, come to the seasoned fries. And in that case, I just I think straight pepper works with all fries. OK, if you have some that maybe aren’t as special, special fries, then I would say the going with the Cajun, the Cajun sprinkle. Cool. Great. Well, good to know. And if anybody’s looking for more food tips out there, feel free to email Daron. That’s D A R O N at Daron Earlewine dot com. And he is happy to share all those, but the difference would be all minor things you would, you would, it would be in additions to things that have already been created where for you, you actually know how to create the actual dish.
PJ: Well, yeah, I try to. That’s probably the best way to say it. So we lived next door to a chef for a long time. And he had 13 years. And so I started catering with him on the side. And so super fun. Way to explore other forms of creativity. And as a four, you’re always looking for those kinds of things. And as a seven, I would assume the eating part of it is really the thing. You’re looking for more. You’re looking for the experience. You’re looking for the drive.
PJ: But you mentioned Damon a second ago, your brother, and how you guys are so polar opposites. And that kind of sets up where some of where I was thinking we could go today. Just hearing more of your story, for those of you that don’t know, Daron wrote a book. It’s called The Death of a Dream. It tells a lot of his story. It actually really resonates with my story as well, which I know I think we’ve talked about on the podcast before. But being in each other’s orbits now for going on 25 years, actually, I think we’re going on 26 years at this point, but a lot of those things cross over. And so some people may have never read the book. They may not have listened to podcast episodes where they, where we’ve talked about some of that stuff where you’ve talked and told those stories. But tell me like, where did your call to ministry even come from? Like talk about the very beginning. Like everything you do with Blackbird with, Daron Earlewine dot com with the Earlewine podcast and rogue is all about pointing people to Jesus. So tell me where that even lit a fire in you when you were growing up. You know, like I think about,
Daron: It’s interesting how you can see so many early kind of reference points, I guess, or data points of like how God was really in a very personal way drawing you to himself and dialing you in, right? And so, you know, I’ll answer the question, but a takeaway bonus I would give to the listener is like, if you’re on a journey right now where you’re searching or trying to figure out where’s God been in my journey? Like pay attention to what you most were drawn to even in your childhood, you know? And so for me, music was a big part of that, man. I can remember being really little. I think it was my seventh birthday, dude. And it was even before this, but I think it was my seventh birthday. We were in Chicago for this youth conference that my parents were serving in.
Daron: So this would have been, I don’t know what’s the day. It would have been 84. Chicago 84. That’s what it was called. Is that the math? I’m born in 77. Yeah, I was seven. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. So it’s December. We celebrate my birthday in Chicago and David Meese. Do you remember that name? He was a Christian artist in the early eighties.
PJ: No, I was born in 81. I’m a couple of years younger than you. So David Meese was there.
Daron: And then you’re going to know this one, Carmen. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. Everybody knows Carmen. Everybody knows Carmen. And dude, I remember I was so sad because it was it was the concert was Carmen and I loved Carmen and I got sick and had to go back to the hotel room and miss the show. I was so sad. But like these big events, these kind of youth of conferences that we that we would go to in concerts. Like there was something there where I felt like super alive being at them. Right. And it was not long after that. I think I was eight. I should know this better. I was six or eight. So it was either the year prior or the year before. Do you say six or eight or six, six or seven? I was six or seven. So the amount of times I get set in my house. We both have teenagers at home, so we get it. Yeah. It’s unreal. But I can remember, I was listening, I think I was listening to either Carmen or David Meese on a tape. And I remember coming down in town, my parents like, like I want to follow Jesus, you know, and prayed with my parents. And so like there was a combination of, and I can remember it being through listening to music that whatever the songs were, were the things that were really drawing me in of like, this is what I want to be about, you know?
Daron: And I think no doubt, my dad was a pastor at that point. So we were around the church, you know what I mean? But that’s where the connection with Jesus really started. And I would say everything else in between there until my freshman year, summer after my freshman year of college or high school, I mean, was just kind of life in the church. I don’t have a lot of data points that I can think about there of like really seeking after Jesus, if you will. I was in the mix, everything, whatever. But the next major way point was that summer I got called to ministry at camp. I also made a commitment that I would read my Bible every day for the next year. And I know I missed days. I didn’t get 365 days streak, right? But the majority of that year was the first time that I really dedicated myself. Like, I’m really gonna seek after God. I’m gonna seek Him through the Word. And man, I always still come back and say that was the year that really began to change my life because it went from like, we go to church, dad’s a pastor, like I’m a Christian, to I really began to develop this connection of like, man, I’m being like I followed Jesus and like he’s mentoring me through his word. And I would say, you know, from that point, things really began to, to, to grow in a pretty significant way.
PJ: So then fast forward with me, like you’re, you’re in college, you’ve moved Indiana. If you haven’t read the book, the story is great of driving across country, how to, you know, little beat up pickup truck with young Damon, all those kinds of things, but like, you’re here and you’re, you’re in this band, you’re doing life with these guys and everything falls apart. Right. I mean, so death of a dream, you experienced that death of a dream. You don’t fall away. Right. I’m sure there were tough times that go with your spiritual life in all of that, that you were dealing with and working through. But like what kept you through the death of your dream, through the process of recognizing and we can talk about this if you want to. Like I know there’s times where you have dipped back into trying to do that dream of being the musician and all that, but like you’re working through your death of what you thought your life was going to look like. What kept you grounded, connected to Jesus and following after him in a way that gets you to 2025, 2026 by the time this episode releases? You know, it’s a great question. And I actually gained,
Daron: Some insight myself on that that I had forgotten in the past couple years. And I don’t remember. I don’t remember when I went and found these journals. In my brain, I want to say it was two years ago, but I don’t remember why the heck I’ve been finding them and the way my brain works. It could have been when I was trying to, when I was writing the book, but I don’t think it was that long. For whatever reason, I went back and I went through my journals and, and I was, there’s a, there’s a data point, right? I started journaling my junior year of high school. It was the thing we had to do in Mr. Schneider’s composition class, whatever.
PJ: Like an English class. English class.
Daron: Writing, learning. And you had to, it was part of the deal. He made you get a journal and you had to journal. And like, I think maybe we started every class period with five minutes of journaling or whatever. Interesting. And I loved it. Okay. Fell in love with it and I’ve journaled ever since. I think that’s a discipline. If you’re looking for disciplines that help you sustain through really rocky seasons, I think journaling is important because I think it for me, I know it has always allowed me to chart the faithfulness of God.
PJ: Yes. So good.
Daron: Right? Like man, let me go back and what was I praying about six months ago? Holy crap, it actually happened. God’s been faithful. So I think and sometimes, I mean, like sometimes that faithfulness is a yes. Sometimes it’s a no. Sometimes it’s a not right now.
PJ: Yeah. Right? Yes.
Daron: And when you get a no or not right now, like fear, doubt, everything screams at you. He’s not with you. You’re alone, it’s not gonna work out. And then you look back and you go, oh, now I see what he’s doing. So I think when it all went down, like I had, you know, a pretty good runway of years of journaling and closely walking with Jesus. Like it wasn’t a concept for me. It wasn’t like it, like I genuinely loved Jesus and following Jesus. And I think I can say with confidence, like that was more important to me than you know, being a rock star and playing drums and whatever. So I went back and found those journals. And what was shocking to me, PJ, is I think as I tell the story and maybe it’s a sexier story to tell of like, you know what I mean? Like, you know, the dream died and I was so distraught and despondent and, you know, in too deep depression. And it sucked. Trust me. But I went back and saw some of the things I was journaling when we were walking through that. And it really surprised me because for one, like, there was pain, but there was still faith, there was still hope, and I was still seeing, you know, how God was, was present. And there were ways that he would show up or was like, you know, okay, I see what you’re doing here. Like,
Daron: So I think that’s a part of it, dude. And you know what’s interesting to you, PJ, and I thought about this and I probably could have added more of this in the book, maybe we’ll add it to the next book if there is a next book. But I’ve had to be honest with myself and look back to, I don’t know, the last six months or so of the band and of Chasing the Dream is, and I remember we had Steve Poe, former pastor of Northview Church on years ago. And Steve talked about the push and pull of God’s call in your life. A lot of times when you get into transitionary seasons, there’s a push out of that you feel kind of internally out of where you are at. And at the same time, God is faithful to begin to pull you towards something else. And that tension creates attentions, right? As I can remember, and I didn’t like the tension, when I was feeling it. I don’t think anybody likes attention when they feel it, right? But it was like we’d be doing gigs and I’d be back there behind the drums and I’d be thinking of things I want to say. Not what’s the next blast beat that I need to play? What’s the next thing I need to do? It’s, I really want to say this. I want to… Yeah, we’d be coming through a song and I would think about what the song’s talking about. Maybe we were even leading worship, you know, because we did that quite a bit and thinking like, oh gosh, like this needs to be said, these kids need to hear this. And it’s like then our lead singer or our keyboardist sang too, like there are only two dudes with mics and they say whatever they say, maybe it was good, maybe it wasn’t. Maybe they didn’t say anything, we just went on to the next song. And there was this feeling where I started to feel kind of caged in behind the drums. Like I love this, but like I gotta talk to people. Like I’ve got things that needs to, that I need to say, you know, and it thinks about, I feel like it’s the, who’s the prophet that talks about, you know, God’s word burning in his bones. Is it Isaiah? I feel like it’s kind of a regular thought process, but that sounds right. Maybe it’s Ezekiel. I’m not good at, I’m not good at references on that. One of those two.
PJ: It’s Isaiah or Ezekiel.
Daron: But it’s like, if I don’t, like I can’t not speak the words that God’s giving me. It’s like, it’s like a burning inside my bone. And I felt that. And so I think there was a part two, man, is everything kind of fell apart of just thinking like, man, is this part of what God’s doing? You know what I mean? That it’s like, I’m not just supposed to be, you know, a drummer. But yeah, man, it’s so, I guess I was really surprised when I found those journals, because in my brain, I’m like, I was just a stupid 21 year old kid, like, you know, and not that my life was all together. And I think sometimes I look back and think like, oh man, I was kind of a disaster in some different ways of life. And I was probably thinking this. And I went back and saw in those journals and I’m like, oh, this is what I was thinking. Oh, well, I really was genuinely seeking Jesus and like meeting with him nightly and like, so I, you know, I guess the principle is there, you know, it’s, there were spiritual disciplines there that kept me grounded and connected to Jesus that when everything blew up like those sustained, which is weird because dude, I would say like there were it for a lot of my life through my twenties or whatever, people would probably say, and I would say it like, dude, I’m not a very disciplined person. And like, what’s weird is I look back now my own life, like I was just telling somebody this yesterday and when we were doing some in some of the road collective coaching, I was in one of our coaching hives and, and, and tell them the group that it’s like, I’ve had to like come to grips with the fact that like, since Knox was born, he’s 15 for 15 years. I’ve worked out three to five days a week for 15 years. Like there’s some weeks in there maybe, you know, that I miss here, but it’s like,
PJ: You had neck surgery.
Daron: Well, there was a, that was a great, that was, that sucked. But like, wait a second. I basically weighed about the same amount and stayed in shape for 15 years. That, that takes discipline. And so I’m a little sporadic and crazy and spur of the moment and all things come to being a seven. But it’s just interesting. I guess it like, I don’t want to say I’m proud of myself, but I am kind of proud of myself when I look back and I realized like, actually, I was even more disciplined as a 21 year old than I even thought I was. And I just don’t know, principle wise, I don’t know that you can, the percentage chance of you staying faithful and following Jesus are really decreased if you don’t have some regular spiritual disciplines.
PJ: That’s good. Hey, sorry for the interruption here in the podcast, but I wanted to take this moment to invite you into something. If you’ve ever been in a place in your life where you’ve just felt stuck, you felt like maybe you’re just spinning your wheels, you’ve been thinking, then there’s got to be more for me. I listen to the podcast all the time and I hear Daron talk about on purpose and for purpose. I have to discover my purpose. Well, that feeling is right. You do need to. And I want to help you. I want to help be a guide for you to step into who guys created you to be. And that’s the purpose in the design of what we do with Rogue Collective Coaching. So if you’re curious or you know, listen, I’m not curious. I know it’s time for me to take action. Here’s your call to action. I want you to go to rogue collective coaching dot com. I want you to click the button that says book a discovery call. I want you to jump on a 30 minute conversation with me. Jump on the phone. We’ll talk about where you are and if Rogue Collective Coaching is your next step to help you to become who you were born to be. Rogue Collective Coaching dot com. Book a discovery call. Can’t wait to chat with you. Let’s get back to the episode.
PJ: It’s good. You mentioned the fire in your bones. I believe, yes, you’re right. I think it is Ezekiel. And I should have known that because I told you just to hear a few months ago, I just finished reading a big study on Ezekiel and there’s something that I found that was really fascinating, especially the beginning of Ezekiel is like, you know, this, this is the time that the Israelites are. I want to say isolation, but that’s not the word. What’s the word I’m looking for? They’re in exile, right? Like they’re in exile. They’ve been, they’ve been the, Words is hard today. We’re just doing podcasts.
Daron: Talk or anything. No. Okay.
PJ: So let’s backtrack. The Israelites are in exile and Ezekiel feels like he’s got this thing to say, right? But then God makes him mute. Right. And there’s this piece where he kinda has to suffer in silence of having this burning inside of him. And I know there’s something that you and I talked about on our last trip together. And so tell me through your life, like through all your different ministry shifts. Cause I mean, you went from wanting to do the band to then feeling this like called like speak and wanting to run after some of these things. And then that starts to happen. You pastor at churches, you planted a church. You end up at a couple of mega churches. You’re doing some different, different ministry opportunities and stuff there. You start pub theology and all that. Tell me about times where you feel like or have you experienced this is maybe a better question. Is there a point where you feel like everything’s on the right trajectory and it’s not another death of a dream, but there’s a like that pause or that tension happens or something comes up that makes you go, wait a second, what’s happening? And my spiritual disciplines are still in place, but like, I feel like there’s a moment where I would equate to Ezekiel being said, like, you’re this prophet, you’ve got this thing, but now I’m going to make you mute, suffer in silence. Have you ever experienced anything like that?
Daron: Yeah, two things come to mind. So I’ll try to answer them quick so we can keep going. One would be COVID. Okay. In COVID in one week, we lost both of our keystone, like top ministries with Blackbird. All the bars and restaurant closed. There’s no pop theology radio station. We were doing radio theology at that point. Radio station calls says we furloughed everybody, essential people in one week. Yeah. And obviously those are your two big outlets to big at the time. And it’s like, okay, we like at that point, we never said ever walked through a freaking global pandemic. Sure. You know, none of us have ever experienced the government basically taking all your rights away. And so it was like, how long does this last? What does this mean? What’s happening? Like I don’t, I literally can’t do what I do. That was, that was tough. The cool part about that was there’s no way I write a book. There’s no way that we launch Rogue Collective. There’s no way I find myself doing what I’m doing now, which I would say if Julie was interviewing me, she would have probably said something about that. She feels like I’m the happiest and most fulfilled I’ve ever been in ministry ever in my life right now. I don’t get here without COVID and God taking away the other stuff that I had created. And I think that’s a part for me. And this might be even go back to the original death of a dream. I don’t know if this is me or this is everyone. I think it’s at least if you’re a creator. As a apostolic evangelist pioneer connector, I create things. I have proven over 48 years of life, I don’t know how to kill things I create.
PJ: Well, that’s part of part of creating something right? Yeah.
Daron: Is you want it to continue? You want it to have meaning? Yes.
Daron: So I think in God’s grace, you know, he’s like, hey, it’s been a pretty good run, right? We have a new thing we’re going to do. So I’m taking this away. So I that was one of those seasons and seeing how I work. The other one was interesting, man. And it’s kind of it’s kind of a reverse of that. When I left traditional like church ministry in 2012. We launched Blackbird, we’re trying to do this discipleship network. We’ve got these kind of like house churches, missional communities going, we’re leading the discipleship huddles and we’re gathering like once a quarter for this thing called the Celebration, which was a church thing, a worship service out in the community center. But I’m not speaking much. In that next, it was about a three year period there. And I think in my brain I was like, awesome, I’m not a pastor anymore. And I’ll be honest, that was not a great season of I’m not, it’s a season I’m not most proud of in my life. And some of my decisions and some of the ways, the just who I was. And I remember sitting in a service one Sunday at Mercy Road, Carmel, and God was convicted me of it. And basically he said, I know you’re not a pastor, but you’re a leader. Like you’re in it. It wasn’t like he took something away from me. I kind of gave it up. So it’s like I wasn’t mute, but I think I was, I was making myself mute. Yeah. Like I wasn’t speaking at churches very much. I wasn’t really doing anything. I was trying to figure this thing out. And I think it was God saying to me, like, you’re, you’ve, you’ve, you’ve made yourself mute and I didn’t ask you to be, and you were running away from, you know, or, transitioning out of being like a traditional pastor, but you’re not, you never stopped being a leader. So you need to step up and you need to speak up because I didn’t take it away from you. You just muted yourself.
PJ: And that’s part of what we talk about in Rogue Collective stuff, like with the hives and with one of the modules that we do is called Four Noble Quests. You talk about vocation and calling and the differences of those and how they can also be the same and how that purpose is not necessarily your job. If you’re thinking about guys that work in the dirt world, pouring concrete may not be your purpose in life. Talk to me a little bit about how that understanding, because to me, if I’m playing my timeline out, right? If that’s all happening around the COVID time, which is right about the time that we really reconnected, and all of this rogue stuff has happened since 2020. It’s really been the last year and a half that we’ve really been building this out. And so as we’re diving into that and really leaning into this with marketplace leaders, how do you break down that understanding with purpose and calling and vocation with these marketplace leaders that may have never understood the term of calling before.
Daron: I got to tip my hat to Dave Gibbons when he did some mentoring with me two years ago, or I think it was two or three years ago. He opened my eyes to this and it was something that I’d lived, but I didn’t know how to put it into context. So he was doing some training with me and he said, Daron, there’s a massive difference between an occupation and a vocation. And the way Dave says it is this. Occupation is like the uniform you wear. Your vocation is who you are. So vocation, vocari from the Latin there means voice or calling. So as human beings, we have a vocation, a calling on our life because we’re human beings. We’re not human doers. When we, we allow ourselves to be deceived to think that I’m a human doer, then human doers would need an occupation, a job they do that gives them self value. So one of the things I always ask question when I’m doing the road collective training is we’re going through the Four Noble Quests is I ask people, what are jobs? What are some jobs you would have that would mean you have a great purpose? And everybody answers the same things. Doctors, first responders, military, teachers. Right? Like every now and then pastor. Maybe, every now and then every now. But I’m like, yeah. So if you had, if you were one of those, you’d be like, I’ve got great purpose. Like, yeah. I’m like, okay, well, if do you think we could find some people in those occupations, it would be like, no, trust me, bro. This is just a job. Yeah. You know, but then usually if I’m, if I’m with a construction company, dirt road company or a power company, I’ve got lots of different companies I work with. I usually will ask this like, well, you know, what about dozer operator? You know, what about you? You’re on an asphalt team, phenomenal purpose, you know, and it’s like, no. And it’s like, okay, you know, yeah, I guess you’re screwed. Like, you know, like that’s, I mean, if, if occupation is what defines our life, then that’s it. Yeah. But then taking people through and helping them realize like, listen,
Daron: I used to think that I was just somebody who rips everybody off until Dave Gibbons told me that I was a curator. We’ll go back to the full circle of this conversation about you being a chef or being trained by the chef. Wanting to be. Wanting to be. Well, you know, all of art is curating. Eddie Van Halen, God rest his soul. He would talk about all great artists are sponges and filters. They absorb and then they squeeze out in the filth around that becomes their art. So I just think it’s funny how many quotes that I’ve curated from other people, but it’s fine. John Maxwell built the whole career on it. One of my go-tos is that Gary Smalling quote, right? Life is relationships, everything else is just the details. And if you come back and say, okay, as a human being, what do I know is true about me? I was created by a relationship for relationships. Father, Son, Holy Spirit. I don’t know how Trinity works, it’s a mystery, but it is a relationship. And we’re made in his image. He is a relationship. So we are relational beings. Therefore our life is relationships. What is the currency of relationship? Love. What is God? God is love. So you look at that. If I’m made in God’s image, I’m made for relationships and relationships are love and God is love. Then my calling is love. And the reality is unless I’m working by myself, my job is like, I go chip rocks by myself in a cave or something, which it’s kind of mining, but there’s usually a team. Unless I’m in an environment where there’s absolutely no other people. Dallas Willard said something like this, that not every career is your calling, but your calling can fit into any career. And so that’s a big thing for me is, and I think maybe God’s taught me some of that too, is like, I’ve had a lot of careers and that’s been in every career change has been tough. PJ has been like, you know, I’m a drummer. I’m a young adult pastor. Nope. I’m a church planner. Nope. I’m a young adult pastor again. I’m a nonprofit guy that does bar stuff. I’m a radio host. I’m an author. I’m a podcaster. You start adding them all up. I mean, we’re at nine. Yeah. Right now. Now I’m a professional, you know, calling in purpose development coaching in the marketplace. And like that’s 10. Right. Like and in between there, I’ve had jobs like I was I shoveled snow in the winter when I needed to make some money. But just even in my professional career, I’ve had 10 occupations. And what has been helped for me is for me to realize every even occupation change was the process of God refining more and more of my vocation, more and more and more of my calling. And so that’s what I love to do, you know, in coaching and development, people in the marketplace is like, bring them to a place of freedom and passion of like, dude, my job doesn’t define me. My job might just be one of the, an amazing patron that actually funds my ability to do what God actually created me to do. Yeah.
PJ: So good. I think that’s one of the things. So Coop and I went through a hive with a couple of other guys, kind of the hive 1.0 we called it running through the four noble quests. The other two guys that were in it or got guys that are in non-ministry jobs. Watching them process through that exact thing to me who has lived the ministry career, tries to use my business that I’m trying to grow as business, as ministry opportunities, how can we grow kingdom development through all of these different things? To me, it’s really awesome to watch guys recognize this. And so I wasn’t planning for this to go towards the vocational calling occupation discussion. So let’s put a little bit of a point on this and go, as we wrap up, if you were going to say to one person who’s sitting listening to this podcast because they Googled and came onto it, they’re looking for like, I hate my job. Or how do I know if I’m going through a job change? Or what should I do my life that needs meaning? Whatever SEO keyword search term, they landed on this because of. If you were giving them one piece of advice to walk through this next season of tension, what would it be?
Daron: Seek Jesus. It’s interesting. We didn’t plan this conversation, right? It’s just kind of evolved, but that’s where it started. It’s not about your job. It’s not about, you know, really what you’re going through, the particulars. Like, the only thing that can sustain you through it is that you know Jesus and you know that he knows you. And you can answer the two key questions of life every single day. Jesus, what are you saying to me? And then your answer, then, and then second question. What am I supposed to do about that? And then do it. There’s a part of that, PJ, where I don’t want that to sound churchy because I didn’t say go to church. It’s a big difference. A lot of people don’t hear that difference. Correct. I didn’t say go be religious. Right. Seek after Jesus. Because when you’re in a transitional change like this, and this comes back to something I say all the time in the podcast, right? And it comes from Ephesians chapter two, verse 10. There are tons of great things. There are thousands of amazing scriptures in the Bible for whatever reason. I camp out on about 10 of them, right? But it’s kind of my jam. You are the workmanship of God created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which he prepared in advance for you to do. So what I keep telling people, it’s a setup, PJ, in the best possible way. Your life is prepared in advance for you to do. How does God do that? I don’t know. It’s a mystery, but I know that he does. And I know even the crap you go through when everything gets canceled or your band dies and whatever. I mean, it’s like, he’s still there. And guess what? He weaves all that together into where he’s taking you. He’s still present as you seek him. You see you’re never alone. He’s there. And so it comes down to when you get in those moments. And once again, there’s something I curated from Dave Gibbons. Everything is response. It’s not initiative. So when I get in that, everything’s falling apart. And I don’t know what career to choose. And I don’t know what job it is. And I’ve had this situation. The angst of not knowing makes you feel like I have to take the initiative and do something.
PJ: Which becomes reactionary. One-hundred percent.
Daron: Not response. Correct. Yeah. And usually not, you know, when we’ve all done it where it’s like, I don’t know. So we just go grab after someone or something. And then we look back and like, gosh, that made it even way worse. You know, in most of the Bible stories that go negative, that’s exactly what happened. Right. Something’s like, I’ll just do this. I mean, Moses is like, ah, something’s wrong. I’ll kill this guy. 40 years later, he’s just walking. I mean, so that would be my piece of advice is I don’t, it doesn’t matter what you’re going through right now. Like you, you didn’t create yourself. You can’t create the best of what God has for you. So you’ve got to get to the place where you’re seeking to know Jesus. You’re seeking to hear Jesus’ voice. And, in, in, and it may just be a 1 % increase than where you’ve been before, right? But you seek after him so you can learn to hear his voice. You can learn to be guided by the Spirit so that you’re not going, I’m going to fix this. You’re going, God, what are you saying to me today? What do you want me to do about it? And then you step into the next thing that he leads you into. And I think that’s what I found on the pages of that journal back in 1999. I was like, wow, I just kept seeking and he kept initiating new opportunities. I just responded to them. And nine occupations later here I am.
PJ: Well, from my seat on the bus, thank you for being disciplined in that. 99 was the year that we met for the very first time when you were helping lead worship and I was an impressionable 18 year old kid who also wanted to be in a band and do all the things and trying to figure out my call to ministry and was working through, you know, life change at 18, getting ready to go to college. I’d just broken up with a long time girlfriend. All of my friends took her side in the story instead of, you know, building into the relationship that I had. And so there was this, you know, push and pull attention and all these things that when I met you for the first time, and God bless him, Matt Leroy, who we just had a call with the other day. I mean, you two guys, my mom will tell you to this day, helped keep me in line to experience those disciplines and stay on that. And so you never know how these little moments through life connect and can make a difference for someone in such a big way. And I think that’s if I was going to add one thing to what you said, follow Jesus. I love the, I love the, you know, what do you want me to hear today? And what do you want me to do about it? And then if I was going to add one thing to that, it would be, help me see it. Because when you see it, when you see change that happens in people because of faithfulness, it grows faithfulness and it’s great. It’s great. So thanks for having me on today. Thanks for being open and vulnerable and talking about all this stuff. And maybe this is something we do more Coop because like it’s a, who knew where this conversation was going to go and it all wrapped up so well. So nice and pretty and fun.
Daron: I mean, I obviously, if you’re a podcast faithful person, you know, I have no problem just staring at the camera and talking, but I love the conversation because it’s just, there’s an ebb and flow of it. So yeah, we need to, maybe, maybe this is a new thing we do where we just, it’s not just you know, Daron’s spiky head, bobbling around, talking all the time. We get into conversations. You know, those little Funko pop things. Have you seen those little like vinyl figures that you can do like, and you can have them designed to look like yourself. Think like, you know, Lego characters, little Lego minifigures. You can make all the parts and pieces and what so Funko pop, you know, shameless plug. This has no kickback to me by anything. But I think Koop, this is all really more for you. I think we need to get one of those. That’s a Darren early wine design, Funko pop and put it back in the set somewhere back here. So people can focus on that little spiky haired vinyl Darren in the back instead of the, the Bobbily head bouncy one. It’s sitting in the chair every day. So awesome. Good stuff, dude.
PJ: Thank you, PJ. I appreciate it.
Daron: Thank you for downloading this episode. Means the world to us. I would love to hear from you. You can always email me Daron at Daron Earlewine dot com. And I would love for you to be a part of the conversation until we have another one. Remember these three things, God’s for you not against you. He’s near you not far away and He’s created you on purpose and for a purpose. Thanks for downloading this episode of the Darren Earlewine Podcast.